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Post by Fanboy Menace on Jun 22, 2009 20:46:56 GMT -5
You know it doesn't take much for me start complaining about what I think is wrong with comics. ;D
The thing about the illusion of character progression is that fans have become conditioned to think that something radical has to happen periodically to make it seem like things are really going on with their favorite hero. Death, costume changes, whatever. What really ever changes? Nothing. Give it a little time and Bruce Wayne will be dressed as a bat and beating up Gotham City crazies again. You can change the Robins but now what do you have but a backlog of adult Robins and the further difficulty of being able to believe Batman isn't a middle-aged old fart by now. So much attention gets paid to the illusion of things happening as opposed to good storytelling right? I could give a shit if the characters stay the same age in the same station indefinitely as long as the stories being told about them are entertaining.
And you picked one of the most famous cases of mass micromanagement in recent history to defend your case, man. Just short of the Bill Jemas debacle of years before at Marvel in that he didn't meltdown in the process and lose his job. Didio had no problem putting himself in the middle of the successful lead up to IC, so when the books and company direction faltered afterward (when the cliches began to wear thin) he took that credit too whether he wanted it or not. Company figurehead. Comes with the job.
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Post by Ramon133 on Jun 22, 2009 20:57:21 GMT -5
That is true. I just REALLY hate the term "Didiot"
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Post by Fanboy Menace on Jun 22, 2009 21:50:05 GMT -5
I agree that there is some irrational dislike of Didio. And lots gets dumped on editors. It's the same with movie directors crying foul about studio interference. It's hard to know what all happens behind the scenes.
I'd like to see an event that doesn't involve reality bending or mass tie-ins some time. Just a good big story.
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Post by Motherfucking Awesome!! on Jun 22, 2009 22:24:25 GMT -5
The Superboy Punch may have landed in Wolfman's lap but something that wide ranging in effect had to be editorial. Like Didio's much publicized wanting to kill Dick Grayson and only reversing it when he realized what a shit storm it would cause and then you have that whole awkward bit where you knew that it was where Grayson's death was supposed to happen but then it was just nothing scene. The Punch however became the easy answer to everything from Jason Todd to Doom Patrol, so yeah, big bad editorial mess that was. The whole Multiverse plot point was pure sloppiness that was smoothed out a little in 52 as the writers supergroup sorted out the mess of IC's ending. I see good things before and after. But Infinite Crisis itself is being colored better than it was by impression I think by being better than the event schlock that has surrounded it and riding the coattails of THE Crisis event it was emulating. Still, it will be the 'standard' of this generation by default don't you think? Have fun shitting on that napkin though. What the fuck? Someone AGAIN using the "Didio wanted to kill off Nightwing" shit in their arguement. That statement is used more than a 40 yr old hooker. Did I just land on the wingnuts board again??
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Post by Fanboy Menace on Jun 23, 2009 7:39:20 GMT -5
But it's true. It's the prime example of his running rampant on character deaths but finally overstepping his bounds. Every indicator leading up to it screamed "Dick Grayson is gonna die!" and then nothing. You can see the big hole in the story where it was supposed to be but was aborted.
The whole upcoming Blackest Night storyline seems like a big clean-up job by Johns on just this bit of sloppy 'shocking death' storytelling.
Shit! Did I get smited already? ;D
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Post by Will on Jun 23, 2009 7:42:25 GMT -5
I liked IC but the artists changes were real noticeable at times and did not fit the main art.
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Post by Ramon133 on Jun 23, 2009 7:42:52 GMT -5
Every indicator leading up to it screamed "Dick Grayson is gonna die!" and then nothing. You can see the big whole in the story where it was supposed to be but was aborted. Yes, for spelling hole wrong.
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Post by Fanboy Menace on Jun 23, 2009 7:44:56 GMT -5
Oh right. You know how typo prone I am.
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Post by houseofmystery on Jun 23, 2009 9:38:28 GMT -5
That is true. I just REALLY hate the term "Didiot" God, I hate the term, and I dislike the people that use it with a vengeance.
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Post by Motherfucking Awesome!! on Jun 23, 2009 16:12:47 GMT -5
I read the IC hardcover this morning before bed and it still reads great and exciting in my opinion. There isn't THAT much that leads you to believe Dick was going to die. If he did I would have been disappointed there wasn't enough of him to lead up to it. The whole thing with E2 Superman saying he wasn't corrupted on the New Earth was some big foreshadowing, along with that scene of Batman and Brother Eye that had Dick on all the monitors. I think Johns did a good job of making it work having Superboy in the role of "who dies". Editorial did a good job I guess of making sure which artist got to draw which scenes. Ordway on the Superman fight or Reis on the Brother Eye attack worked beautifully and played to each artist's strength.
But whatever because Dick is now Batman.
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jags
New Member
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Posts: 8
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Post by jags on Jun 26, 2009 4:08:02 GMT -5
The original Crisis vs. Infinite Crisis? Hrmmm... First of all, I think they were both written very well and looked fantastic. So for me, which is better really boils down to what you want from the DCU. Crisis on Infinite Earths destroyed the multiverse. Infinite Crisis officially brought it back. Both were major events that led to a new status quo at DC and created great jumping-on points for virtually every book DC was putting out. So do you like the multiverse or not is the real question. I hate the multiverse, so the original Crisis wins for me, hands down. And comparing Jiminez to Perez is like comparing an Elvis impersonator to Elvis in his prime, so the art wins easily for me, too. The original Crisis also had more of an impact on DC. It was the 12 issues that put DC back on the map, where they had been getting annihilated by Marvel 100 times worse than any time before or since. To get back in the game with one swing when you're that far behind is an amazing accomplishment. Infinite Crisis had some really great moments (Superboy Prime tearing through those D-list Titans was awesome), but to me it read like a fanfic sequel to a classic canon story. Throw in the same characters, revisit the same plot, and fill seven issues with a handful of real moments surrounded by 120 pages of stuff blowing up. Rinse and repeat. The original Crisis was -- wait for it -- original. Nothing like it had ever been done before and it fixed so much of what was broken at DC. Infinite Crisis was unoriginal, created as much (or more) crap than it fixed, and fits pretty squarely into the "Just Another Comic Event" category. Crisis on Infinite Earths invented the concept of comic events, for better or for worse. So yeah, it's better than Infinite Crisis. /thread, bitches!
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Post by cyclone on Jul 8, 2011 0:54:31 GMT -5
Haha, I was hoping this would rile you up a bit. ' I've caught a lot of heat for agreeing with Dan Didio's decision to kill of Dick Grayson in Infinite Crisis and I think the fact that that lackluster series only got a little better than it had been for the past decade shows that from an editorial standpoint, Dick Grayson could have used a little killing off for something exciting to happen to that character. He's Batman now, so no problem there, but the status quo had been in tact for years with no real progression for Bruce, Dick, nor Tim so... yeah fuck Dick Grayson, he SHOULD have died. Jason SHOULD have been Nightwing. The fans got their way though, so whatever. One of my big problems with these arguments is that most often Editorial takes the shit storm for bad things happening and the writers (unless they are loathed like Winnick or nuLoeb) get to take credit when good things happen. It's like how people praise god for all the pretty flowers and cute babies and blame satan for AIDS and rape and shit. You did that a little bit up there, but I'm just saying it bothers me in general when I read that shit. :)
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